To ADW Administrators: about current project

[*DZR*Chimanov]

Please can someone translate this to russian, thank you.

Hello gentelmen:

The past ADW campaign was my first time in your excellent project. I really enjoyed it and after years of bellum system online wars your project was a lot of fresh air and a challenging scenario for good virtual pilots.

But I enjoyed it because the fighting was very hard; with even numbers of pilots where sometimes VVS were a lot more and some other times OKL were on the advantage regarding pilot numbers, but most time the numbers were even.

The fact showed that with even numbers OKL were easily beaten by 108-38 points so many of us stopped playing when we realized that was mathematicly impossible for OKL to win the war.

Now its a totally different scenario; in all maps (except some moments during Moscow 41' summer) OKL have a difference of 2-1 or even 3-1 number of pilots which makes impossible to VVS side to do anything about map results.

So it seems that when numbers are even OKL have no chance with ADW winning conditions; and with no limitation of pilots to one side VVS have less pilots and also no chance to give a fair fight which I think is boring for both; the side that is always outnumbered all the time; and the pilots from the side who have no opposition and dont like easy wins. Those who like stats more than good fights or just easy kills won't have any problem with this situation, of course.

So I wonder if there is any way to make this more entertaining by, for instance, limiting the maximum of pilots by side, or anything at all.
Have you thaugt about this? What conclusions have you reached, if that is the case?

I tell you this because under current circumstances many will probably lose interest, leave this project and may rejoin in the next one...many of us enjoy good fights, and not to bully or being bullied

Regards;

Chimanov.

[I./JG53_Adler]

Will translate tomorrow morning.

Completely asleep atm

This question has been discussed years before, after GT's ADW started.

[SDPG_SPAD-GT]

Just keep waiting...in a few maps blue pilots will start to vanish

[OLORIN]

or wait next war... 72AG will return and all`ll be ok for u )))

[*DZR*Chimanov]

First of all thanks Adler if you translate this to russian; as all admins are Russian and most of ADW community.

And as Olorin said I noticed that 72AG is not flying for VVS side on this war (if they fly at all) but also 159BAG, a good squadron, went to the "dark side"...and so on. I dont understand whats the fun of flying in such uneven conditions 100% of the maps; but ok, thats me. Also =BY= squadron, a historicaly VVS squad now fly on OKL side

Until things are fun for both sides, i will fly a lot less, probably using ADW for training Kadets and not as competition; and will keep my enthusiasm for next war...when I hope things change to even conditions.

Thx!

[VPK_CARTOON]

Dear Chimanov. Things you describe had been discussed long ago as it was mentioned earlier.
The war was never fair play or gave even chances to both sides. Initially both sides have more-less even chances by default. Then it all comes down to people. Most of the red pilots dont like getting punished in 41-42. Same shit happens to the majority of OKL pilots later by 1943. You will see great advantage of reds in numbers. Its just happens. You cannot correct peoples nature. 70% of people want to be winners. When it becomes hard they quit. You are a good pilot in terms of handling your plane. Forget about even chances please. Just think of it as of the real war conditions when you are ditched by you superiors no support and no way back. This is what normally happens at war cause its shit massacre. Thats why ADW is not for pussies but for the real hardcore gamers. Just choose one option -wait untill 1943 or switch your brain on and be more sophisticated killa' ))) Cheer up !

[[BF.S]Buch]

*DZR*Chimanov
Spit this business. Let they will do some flying and will be glad. Not for long to them remains. About changes do not ask. Changes will not be.
Fight more them or less, above they or more low. Fight and do not ask anything. If you in a command, quantity of opponents are not of great importance.

[Snark]

Chimanov, friend! ADW history knows more more bad team balance than now. Was times when after 42 quorums like 10 vs 40 was usuall.. 40 reds sure.. Now red side need more pilots, yes. But especially need GOOD pilots, like you. If you choose way to crying and weeping, then red side lost one more excellent member. This story repeats again and again... For different sides in different wars.

[*DZR*Chimanov]

Dear friends: i thank you for your kind advises but be sure i dont need any lessons about beign a "more sophisticated killer" (like cartoon said) and I think i have showed to you about that during previous campaign (my first time in ADW), remember?

I disagree with Cartoon that VVS dont like to be punished during 41'-42'; i personally love 41', 42' and early 43' period and not later. I remember previous campaign, most of early maps were won by VVS and conditions were even; never this 3-1 difference. I dont like easy stuff, if I wanted easy stuff i would fly LW with 109F during 41' and FW190 from 42' I like hard fighting, but not conditions where there is no chance to win an online war.

Cartoon, you mention reality war conditions; and I accept beign outnumbered, NP about that, but i dont think is fun for anybody to be ALWAYS outnumbered 2.5/1 because we all know under those conditions is impossible to win a campaign. So where is reality there? I cant remember that during Great Patriotic War VVS was outnumbered 3-1 for two years, was it? So I ask you: if there is no chance to win a campaign; what does people fly for? I think the only reason some VVS squads and most OKL squads fly under these conditions is for stats, nothing else. If I wanted only shining stats, I would join dogfight servers and not hardcore Online Wars as I do, so more respect please.

I dont like easy stuff; i flew during this project 110 missions ( and 50 missions with my bomber nick *DZR*BAP_Meklinov) so Im not waiting until 1943; im waiting until next project where good and difficult fights come up, not turkey shoot for trophy hunters

For example, last project after hard fighting we VVS were winning 108-38 and there was no chance OKL could win that campaign with remaining maps/points, so I almost didnt fly at all and waited for new one. If I was in a side who is always 45-16 or 38-20 and so on, I WOULD STOP FLYING because is not challenging so it becomes boring, but if you guys seem to like easy kills, well...that is in your nature, not mine.

I never cried at all...I only show you the fact that with current conditions not many will be interested in flying; and I like ADW and dont want that to happen, do you understand?

Even conditions from beggining would be to limit the server; for example if maximum server capacity is 70 players, then would be interesting to say that maximum players one side can have is 35.

Another thing I dont like is "VIOLET" players, which mean they are not red or blue...they change EVEN DURING THE SAME MAP from one side to another, and thats just ridiculus. There must be a rule prohibiting this; and also a rule that when a pilot is discovered doing a serious cheat, like that JG107_Ari guy who admitted creating a false red squadron so he could see the positions of our depots, he must be banned for ever under those nicks, and not just one week, that is completely incredible. Check: viewtopic.php?f=114&t=136432&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=240

I like challenges; i like hardcore scenarios and hard fighting (not easy for red, and not easy for blue) specially during firsts years of war (41',42' and early 43' as my favourite planes are i16, Lagg3-s35 and P39D2) and I fly an online campaigns to have fun and to win the competition. Its boring 40-20 for reds, and also 40-20 for blues all the time.

My proposals:

1) Limit the maximum numbers of players, to half the maximum of server capacity for each side. ie: Max Server=70 then Max by side=35. So here, one side can be outnumbered 35-20, NP, but not 60-10.

2) Do not allow one squadron have red and blue units during same map. If this is discovered, Ban.

3) Bann forever the nicks of those players found guilty of flagrant cheats. Ban cheaters!!!

I hope you understand my point, i enjoy ADW, its a very nice project, and want to find solutions to make it better, thats my wish; I keep flying this one and if nothing changes in future campaigns I respect that, but I will leave to a more challenging and "fair" project.

Regards;

Chimanov.

[[BF.S]Buch]

Stages of flights on ADW:
1. What remarkable project.
2. Unfairly incorrectly. Something is necessary, to change.
3. As nobody wishes to change how I think, I will leave.

I think, you now around 2 points. At some rupture between 2 and 3 point very big. We will look, what it will be at you.

P.S. I completely agree with your offers

[=HH=Andygor76]

Можно в вкратце о чём речь? а то "мой инглиш вери бет" ну если не сложно

[[BF.S]Buch]

Ты думаешь мой вери гуд?
На тебе переводилку.
http://www.translate.ru/text_Translation.aspx

[I./JG53_Adler]

Вот перевод, первого письма, ребята. Чуть-чуть сокращённый. Прошу прощения, что не сделал с утра, как обещал.

Предыдущая война была моим первым знакомством с вашим замечательным проектом. Я получил настоящее удовольствие, и после долгих лет полётов на «беллумах» ваш проект оказался глотком свежего воздуха и интересным занятием для опытных вирпилов.

Но причиной моего удовольствия были ожесточённые бои с участием равного количества лётчиков, когда иногда численность красных была значительно больше, а временами было больше синих, но в основном стороны были равны.

Фактически при равенстве сторон синие проиграли со счётом 108-38, что привело многих из нас к отказу от игры в связи с математической невозможностью выиграть войну.
В нынешнем случае всё наоборот: на всех картах (кроме летней Москвы) синие преобладали в соотношении от 2 к 1 до 3 к 1, что исключало возможность повлиять на результаты операции.

Получается, что при равенстве сторон синие не имеют возможности выиграть войну; при отсутствии ограничения на численность сторон красные играют в меньшинстве и тоже не могут рассчитывать на честный бой, что, думаю, никому не интересно - одни постоянно в меньшинстве, другим не интересна победа при отсутствии противодействия противника. Конечно, тем, что летает исключительно на стат, такая ситуация не мешает.

Так что я хотел бы узнать, есть ли возможность сделать игру более интересной, например, путём введения максимального количества игроков каждой из сторон, или что-то ещё.

Вы думали об этом? Если да, то к каким выводам пришли?

[I./JG53_Adler]

Chimanov, I am sorry for not carrying out my promise due to hard work at the office - I have just recently translated your first letter.

First I must admit that no one here ever intended to insult you - maybe not everyone can use the appropriate vocabulary, some people may mess up with English words and their meanings.

You should know that ADW has been going a long way from late spring 2005 when a first beta appeared available to the community. The last winter the project was closed on the Gennadich server and was eventually transferred to Alkar. Of course it is not that old good GT's ADW which was discussed over and debated over a million times and populated by the core community that paid great attention to the server, provided regular maintenance and even created a "Legislative-Advisory Body" to resolve deadlocks, accuses and disputes. But technically Alkar ADW is the same project (at least mostly ).

From the very beginning the project was meant to possibly reflect the atmosphere of a real East Front, its bitter fights and front air units' day-to-day life - and not to create an "even-possibilities gameplay". And that's why most of the community love it - because you never can tell what happens tomorrow. I must assure you that two years ago the LW managed to win some maps (even late war maps - Smolensk '44 and Balaton for instance) being greatly outnumbered. Those victories were caused by precise planning, strict discipline and nearly-perfect organization (of course, most of the glory went to our leaders that could organize us). But still, even after losing a map or two we were full of joy because of a wonderful atmosphere and unbelievable, unforgettable air fights.

After all, it's not a regular pilot's responsibility to WIN A WAR - the outcome of most WWII operation was decided by the ground units. And think about German soldiers who desperately fought even in 1945 - without any chance to win the war (same can be said about some Soviet operations).

Let's just have fun over the air fights, not the wins or losses - you will see things change many times during the next wars and operations.

And, of course, the cheaters must be banned - it's 100% agreed

Regards

[Snark]

+1000 Adler!!!
great post