Quorum discussion (English)

[*DZR*Chimanov]

Hi all!

Its really hard for non-russian people to follow the discussion about quorum issues for ADW going on here: viewtopic.php?f=114&t=169892

So I ask to anyone who can speak both english and russian, if its possible to write a brief explanation of what has been proposed there. Could possibly someone do that for all non-russian speaking community please? Thank you in advance

I think the main problem in ADW now is that is not only a russian people (meaning ex-soviet union too) project, but an online campaign involving people from many countries like Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, Spain, Germany, Poland, Greece, Finland..etc and most of them have joined OKL side.

So the ones who joined VVS side found, most of this project, competing outnumberd from 2-1 to 3-1 scenarios in most maps and sometimes with unilateral quorums of 13-0. "Fighting" outnumbered is not a problem if it happens sometimes and the situation changes (like in previous ADW), but when you are always under those circumstances, its not fun...and people starts to leave the project.

I gave my opinion after the first 3 maps where OKL not only had the advantage in planes, but also an overwhelming advantadge in numbers; by then it was explained that this tendence would change after 42' maps and also a big comment about realism and Eastern Front feeling (realistic and EF feeling would be 4-1 to VVVS by 44' ); and i replied that i didn´t think so because during/after 42' LW has the mighty FW190A( = a lot of kills), and if you added to that the numbers...well, you have what we had today...ie; i just come from the lasts missions in Lvov 44' and during last 3 to 4 map reloads we were between 24-10 and sometimes there was like 30-12 or even less VVS. A victory like that has no point, cause it doesnt matter what tactics or teamwork you use, if time after time you are outnumbered in such way...theres nothing VVS can do to win a map.

So again, is it possible to translate some of the options given at the russian discussion? Maybe the non-russian people can also add some good options to make ADW better and more enjoyable for everyone.

Thank you.

[Snark]

Chimanov, friend.. There is no real discussion on this forum, because its impossible to deal with many radical-minded users who posts there. Real discussion about balance&changes goes on another, closed forum. And about quorum problems too. Maybe next war will be some changes there.

About blue outnumbering i suggest with you, but not 100%.. Blue side bigger, but not 1x3 as we see often. I dont know why big part of red pilots sabotage fly and prefer to post on forum about hard life..
See, when IC/ID was banned, reds won all maps in short time. And quorums on Prohorovka and Kursk was with red advantage, mostly. Isnt it? IC/ID its only 5-6 regular pilots (and some comings time by time)
so, not 1x3
Guess its just psichological.. if u side "on a horse" u want to fly, and if u side in trouble - many people going away

Next war need to select teams more balanced. We want switch to red color btw

[*DZR*Chimanov]

Snark! S!

Well, i agree that during Kursk and Proko we had more pilots; but never in such difference as in 41' or as lately. You show an example of 2 maps, but what about other 12?.
True; 3-1 quorums after 42' were not common; but 1.8 -1 or 2-1 was average situation in every other map...and this is not a psycological thing; its a fact.

Changes must be done, because when numbers are even VVS are almost unbeatable (like in past ADW or during current one like Kuban) and seems that OKL side has to outnumber VVS a lot to have a chance; for example until you guys got again a 2-1 quorum, you could not advance in map Lvov 44'; the same with previous maps where you had to go with unilateral quorums to win...so maybe we should check victory conditions as well...or something.

I hope our good friends from 72AG join next project too; so at least we will recover some of our "lost" squads...and would be nice to have friends MK*Starlei, Honda and Snark back in VVS too

S!

[*DZR*Chimanov]

Snark...check this buddy:

Balaton 45'
Last four missions (Tuesday From 23:00 to 1:00AM approx. Europe time)

3-1

5-1


And the cherry on top of the cake... (btw; 2:00AM)
10-0


I think many Reds don´t fly because they don´t like to waste the time participating on a map that will be changed when they are sleeping So...after some "fair" guys do their job and force a quorum like that, many people quit... and I understand them. So its not a psycological issue Snark; can´t you see? Are you trying to say that ppl is afraid of your squad? Well, maybe you forgot the past project where reds stopped playing after the outcome was irreversible after a 108-38 difference

So, because of log readers and that kind of cheaters+beign outnumbered almost every map+unfair people forcing an unilateral quorum when there are no rivals to compete with+stupid comments people have to read from some ID/IC/EL (i repeat, some not all) members in forum...well, there you have a nice cocktail and the answer to why many just do not participate.

[Snark]

we all was flying with closed eyes, dreaming only about sleep .. but we was need to do anything.. or we lost this map in another case. Red tanks in 44-45 doing job very nice.. and with even losses in tanks front line moving to north.

What i see on your screen? I see that 2 blue squads + some alone pilots trying to correct situation, and i dont see any red squads.. only alone pilots. Why red squads go sleep, and blue still flying? Maybe beacause they may do it, we are not.

That you say about logreader its only fantasy.. this thing almost useless as i know. More, last days user logs was closed by admins, and no logreaders around now. And please, dont say that we are bad boys and reds all in white.. its not true. We was banned because one member was finding bombers with help of tracks.. Now he dont do it, long time. Some reds too using this trick time to time, all know they.. but was banned only our squad. I hope that fair-play will comes back to server.

About cheaters - if u mean cheats with Il-2 program, i dont know anything. As i know was only one really cheater in all ADW story.. He was killing 10 tanks by sortie with 151/20 it was 1-2 years ago.. its all

I hope you trust me

you are just flying, i am just flying.. we all just doing it. All dirty talks on forum only killing our desire to fly

S!

[*DZR*Chimanov]

Red tanks in 44 doing job very nice.. and with even losses in tanks front line moving to north.

Then this is a problem, I thaught blue and red had the same type of tanks. If you think tankset is not correct, then you should ask administrators to check this.

What i see on your screen? I see that 2 blue squads + some alone pilots trying to correct situation, and i dont see any red squads.. only alone pilots. Why red squads go sleep, and blue still flying? Maybe beacause they may do it, we are not.

I don`t know why they go to bed on a Tuesday at 2:00AM ...maybe work, maybe family issues, i don´t know. But i guess what i told you in previous post has something to do with it.

That you say about logreader its only fantasy.. this thing almost useless as i know. More, last days user logs was closed by admins, and no logreaders around now. And please, dont say that we are bad boys and reds all in white.. its not true. We was banned because one member was finding bombers with help of tracks.. Now he dont do it, long time. Some reds too using this trick time to time, all know they.. but was banned only our squad. I hope that fair-play will comes back to server.

No Snark, im not saying Blue are cheaters and Reds not, i don´t like cheating in any color and i know that some VVS guys might do the same...if they are found guilty of unfair behaviour they should be punished as anybody else.

I hope you trust me

you are just flying, i am just flying.. we all just doing it. All dirty talks on forum only killing our desire to fly

S!

Yes i trust you and me and some cadets (Smertyiev is having his holidays) are still participating in the project even under such conditions; and also with P39Q10 vs. FW190D, 190A9 and 109G10 it's like beign back in 41' flying i-16 against 109F with the tiny difference that Kobra is not a "climbing monster" as the Ishak (btw - not boring at all). The difference Snark is that with current project situation, we can only try to stop some bombers and try to kill some tanks, but its really difficult to have fun when situations like the ones shown on the screenshots are the same for 12 maps out of 14...and nothing changes.

So for me the most important, is to all think about certain changes so this situation is not repeated during next projects, cause now red side are outnumbered big time, but on next war this can happen to blue side and it wont be fun for anybody...at least for me winning maps with 2-1 or 3-1 quorums would be absolutely boring.

And last thing tovarich Snark ,i have noticed that you, Destroyer and Olorin use the chat a lot during missions, maybe if you don´t like dirty talks, you guys should stop doing this...and also, killing chutes is OK imho (its realistic so i like it), but not when you outnumber your "enemy" 5-1, because thats also something that takes many people the desire to participate as much as the dirty talks you mention.

S!

[Snark]

So for me the most important, is to all think about certain changes so this situation is not repeated during next projects, cause now red side are outnumbered big time, but on next war this can happen to blue side and it wont be fun for anybody...at least for me winning maps with 2-1 or 3-1 quorums would be absolutely boring.

I really dont understand why called flying for red side now as "boring". For me (not more) flying for outnumbered side its mostly interesting thing.. And boring it is flying with number advantage.. But we cant switch side because its not dogfight.
And you dont answer, why on Proh and Kursk was flying enought reds, and then part of them go away?

And last thing tovarich Snark ,i have noticed that you, Destroyer and Olorin use the chat a lot during missions, maybe if you don´t like dirty talks, you guys should stop doing this...and also, killing chutes is OK imho (its realistic so i like it), but not when you outnumber your "enemy" 5-1, because thats also something that takes many people the desire to participate as much as the dirty talks you mention.

Maybe we have a big mouth.. But I dont remember that i was saying offensive words to anybody in chat. If it was - sorry..

[2GvShAD_Tokar]

что он хочет?

[Snark]

обсуждаем фронтовые будни

[*DZR*Chimanov]

I really dont understand why called flying for red side now as "boring". For me (not more) flying for outnumbered side its mostly interesting thing.. And boring it is flying with number advantage.. But we cant switch side because its not dogfight.
And you dont answer, why on Proh and Kursk was flying enought reds, and then part of them go away?

Please friend; you know what i mean... i fly for outnumbered side and on planes that do not have the advantage most of the time, and i like it ,but:

If you think flying 12 out of 14 maps in 3-1 conditions on VVS planes...then i think is not very honest from you. I have no problems to fly outnumbered, but i also like to experience different situations, not always the same...and quorum issue is not the only one here.

About Prohk and Kursk, i don´t know why many VVS squads left after those (if they did at all)...but anyway, i think is not important and has nothing to do with the main issue here, imho. If you have any idea why they did that (again, if they did it) you tell me because i dont really know.

P.S: Tokar, english discussion, remember?

[*DZR*Chimanov]

I really dont understand why called flying for red side now as "boring". For me (not more) flying for outnumbered side its mostly interesting thing.. And boring it is flying with number advantage..

I had forgoten about this...and sorry Snark, but your actions show that what you say is not true. Why??? Because if it is "so boring" for you to fly in 3-1 numbers, then why you always join missions and even force 10-0 or 13-0 quorums???

I think competitive people like to win,i do, but some would do anything in order to achieve that; i don´t.

And you know what? Most Red pilots didn´t leave after Prohk or Kursk, they left after Crimea 44' and you know why? because after fighting outnumbered (but good disadvantage, not 3-1) we were winning that map, but on a day Blue had 30-8 quorum in one afternoon and during evening you had unilateral quorum so all the "hard work" we did during that map, was thrown away in one afternnon/night. I stayed in the project, but i don´t blame other teams for leaving, i understand them.

The most important, it is to find a solution for this...if it is possible, of course.

S!

[Snark]

My main idea that need collect more balanced teams before war.. And everybody who saying that he fly for red or blue need to understand that if he go away, enemy will have advantage. All my hopes to next war.. (and will be some changes in balance next war)
Anyway, this war not ended, points almost even, and last 2 maps have increased number of points.. Best way for reds now - total mobilisation, if you want to win. And not forum discuss Blue too, sure We, ex-USSR people, have sad tendency to saying offensive things, and our forums always hot, if there is some interesting.. its normally, and ADW forum was dirty all time..
ADW now have good balance, with some advantage for red (i mean chances to win), but it was makes specially

[*DZR*Chimanov]

Yes, I agree that in ADW Reds have better chances to win, and this is taking past project experience where we had an even "quorumed" competition (its not corrrect expresion, but ppl understand i think ) and under even conditions in the amount of people we erased Blues from that war.
Also during this current project, where we were outnumbered 2-1 or even 3-1 and more (not to mention unilateral quorums) in most maps, we are still fighting and still have chances to win...so: can you imagine what this would be like under different conditions?

That is why i say that some changes must be done in ADW, and not only about quorum issues, also other things so Blue have a chance to win when numbers are not so much in their favour.

S!

[Snark]

I really dont understand why called flying for red side now as "boring". For me (not more) flying for outnumbered side its mostly interesting thing.. And boring it is flying with number advantage..

I had forgoten about this...and sorry Snark, but your actions show that what you say is not true. Why??? Because if it is "so boring" for you to fly in 3-1 numbers, then why you always join missions and even force 10-0 or 13-0 quorums???

I think competitive people like to win,i do, but some would do anything in order to achieve that; i don´t.

And you know what? Most Red pilots didn´t leave after Prohk or Kursk, they left after Crimea 44' and you know why? because after fighting outnumbered (but good disadvantage, not 3-1) we were winning that map, but on a day Blue had 30-8 quorum in one afternoon and during evening you had unilateral quorum so all the "hard work" we did during that map, was thrown away in one afternnon/night. I stayed in the project, but i don´t blame other teams for leaving, i understand them.

The most important, it is to find a solution for this...if it is possible, of course.

S!

I trying to explain my point of view..
I was in many-many wars there, as red and as blue, outnumbered and against outnumbered enemy, lose and win wars.. And i want to say: we are there just soldiers, we must doing our work everytime, regardless front situation. If you choose side u must doing all for win. And if reds now have quantity problems - its only their problems, and reds must resolve it, not blue. If some reds leave war in hard situation - its just not a masculine way, because their teammates having bigger troubles then.
S! I want to fight with you in sky, not on forum

[*DZR*Chimanov]

But we are not fighting Snark, we are just exchanging points of view...and i think that is healthy when its done with respect, even if we disagree in some opinions

We think different about people staying and leaving project. I think uneven situations like the ones we had during current competition is everybody interested in ADW problem, not yours or mine only.

So, from last project 72AG is not flying at all and 159BAG for example went to the Blue side; on top of that most of the new squadrons who joined ADW went also to blue side...and we ended up with things like 49-12 quorums during 41' maps...it was told that this would change, but it didn´t.

So every squad has the right to join the side they want, and in order to have a fun project for all, some rules have to be changed from Administration so we make sure ADW is entertaining for everybody, or more squadrons will be leaving project, and you will have worse situations than nowdays.

S!