Funny

[335th_GRTyphoon]

...So with such settings, reserve planes,etc. you can set result of this war and next one 1:0 for Red side, and next one, and one after last, and one after all, and every one after this one ;D
...

Not true young man. The thing is that OKL always lacked good tactical collaboration of fighters with bombers. With one exeption - finnish squads. They are able to fly in formation of bombers to the enemy ground target and back. I saw it few times. The problem is that OKL bombers make their raids as single units and without understanding how to fly to make fighters able to cover them.

Well organised sturm group can sweep away the enemy stronghold with AAA. What we see now instead - few bombers try to attack ground without any cover while fighters are just growing their personal streaks.

Man...you have F4 now...Reds dont have any plane able to resist it in fair fight. No Yak-7A, no i-16. Nothing. The only way is to hide at AAA and sometimes try to bite an ass of F4 which is sleeping . When REDs get planes able to give fair fight you will see that OKL will start hiding at the AAA. Things will turn around...)))) You will see. When OKL have G6 they hide as hell from YAK9 and La5 ))))

yes,indeed,Cartoon is right on this one.
Blue team always lacked the teamspirit and cooperation that is needed in ADW.
most blue pilots i think know that this is true.....
But,as a small excuse for that,could be that it is much more difficult for blue bomber planeset to deal damage to heavy fortified AAA columns or depot Cartoon?
Not exactly the same to attack column with lets say 4 Stuka (speed sea level 340kmph=slow=vulnerable to AAA,2x7,9mm,1 heavy bomb,with few 109 cover (which have to keep their energy level constantly high) than attacking it with 4 IL-2 (420kmph speed sea level,300 round of 2x23mm for endless strafing,massively armored=maximum survivability,8xRS-82 rockets) and few (almost impossible to hit by Emil and AAA) Rata cover dont you think? (P.S:Respect for those red pilots handling on those little devils)
Not exactly the same to attack main depot with He-111 (420 speed at 6k,15min to climb to 5.8k,dive speed 700kmph) or Ju-88 (470kmph at 6k,14min to 5.8k climb) than in a convenient Pe-2 (520kmph at 4.8k,6.5min climb to 4.2k,900kmph dive speed),isnt it?
what i mean is,it takes a lot more time,resources,skill,patience,cooperation to fly the exact same missions with same results as blue than for red.And it seems that unfortunately most blue players (except for only a few squads) dont have all that for a few years i,ve known ADW now,while red team allways displays excellent teamplay and organization......

My prediction is that with the first 2 maps lost for blue side,and in the 3rd map beeing cornered,most (occasional) blue pilots loose their interest in this,so after 42-43 reds will have a good training session on very few blue pilots
Anyway,most players nowadays tend to spend much less flight hours in bombing missions,especially on blue side,making ADW more of a dogserver than a real online war i guess,thus making the outcome (Red Win) more or less predictable from the very first maps.....

[VPK_CARTOON]

Each side has its advantages that you must be able to use. I remember when strong pilots flew OKL and kept winning maps. Do you remember when finns flew together with 2GvShad with Destroyer for Blue side. It didnt look at all that they had any troubles.
Anyway flying OKL and VVS needs cooperation and different tactics. VVS normally count on IL2 while OKL perfomed good level bombing with He-111 covered by fighters.

[335th_GRTyphoon]

Do you remember when finns flew together with 2GvShad with Destroyer for Blue side. It didnt look at all that they had any troubles.


VVS normally count on IL2 while OKL perfomed good level bombing with He-111 covered by fighters.

1. Yes,i remeber,i was there too......
As for troubles,you dont seem to remeber that at that ADW,with such strong pilots like destroyers gang and massive finn participation,thus with one of the strongest Bomber Roster ever that played blue,blue won ADW only when they won at Balaton lake,untill then everything was open.....


2. And why is level bombing with He-111 an advantage only of blue?Pe-2 performs worst or it cant level-bomb???It can,faster,quicker,with less payload and with more missions per hour.......
Red side doesnt count on Pe but only on IL? I think they count on everything that has to do with ground attack

[Blakhart]

+1 for Typhoon, ADW is based on attacking ground forces and destroying resources, red team planes usually operate on lower alt so have more options and adv for destroying ground troops ( tougher planes, engines , rockets in loadout which are a lot easier to use vs tanks and heavy aaa ) so ???

Planeset lines are made quite good and with nice balance, some maps reds have advantage, some blue, etc. but the main problem is with reserve battle planes.

Simple example:

2-4 of I 153 can easily cover each other, attack column and well defence vs Emils, if more blues come they are obviously dead, with any cover they can easily made counter attacks, spray &pray and force Bf to go back to base because of engine damage...

2-4 of Ju 87 can drop bombs and die, even if they have Bf for cover they dont have such manouver ability to f*** up 1 or 2 reds because of high turn rate of I-153, Rata.
Even if they are able to turn more than yak or lagg there is always some I 16 which is making final "coup de grace".

Moreover I 153 are very hard targets because of small sizes, strong wooden armour and excellent turn rate and they are making counter attacks in Red swarm on low altitude so they are part of defence in aerial combat. I 153 can even recive central hits on engine and dont start flaming/smoking like I 16 and rest of red planes except MiG and is using all the time by red players to force Bf-109 to discontinuing attack by h2h, and experienced Bf-109 driver knows when he made h2h even if his pilot survive green flood of bullets his engine gonna be smoked and that means returning to base...Stuka can only do his job and die, thats all

Usual situation quick burst from 20mm, I 153 damaged, fly more ( if main controls wasnt destroyed )
quick burst from magic russian gatling gun 7,62 - Ju 87 on smoke/ fire-dead after few seconds...


Why you didnt gave red side SB bombers or something more flamable like Stuka in reserver for example with similar to Ju 87 loadout ( about of 400-500 kg of bombs )???
Why if reds have Il-2 for ground attack blue dont have Hs-129 as a reserve plane ??? it is now avilable and compare to Il-2...
His fire power is comparable for Il-2 ( he dont have so many bombs but at least it have more armour than Ju... )

In reality IL-2 was a heavy ground attacker and in a game it is like a 110 low altitude heavy fighter and every blue pilot have to refuse h2h with such monster and watch out for their long bursts. It gives a lot of advantage for reed group of planes or pilots on TS. They know that they can count also on their battle planes, they dont have to waste so much attention on them like blue pilots on their Ju...

I know that Ju-87 have strong advantage because of his dive bombing ability, but in ADW enviroment when targets are based with so much space ( 50-150 meters ?? ? ) and you have to killed single tank by direct hit this advantage is useless because if you want to make succesfull attack you MUST go lower and drop bombs in small degree dive and when Ju dive below 2000 m he is a easy target for reds...

Historical ???
No, it can be because planeset is made to have balance... so ???

4.10.1 brings a lot of new planes, why we couldnt use it in a game and change some reserve planes ???

ADW is the best server in IL-2 comunity even with small bugs/strange generator decisions.

Problem is with some small settings/rules which are give some advantage on overall result on red side, thats all.

You obviously can oficial denied this but at all you know that is true. You v created this projest and better knows all his small secrets.

I 153 and Il-2 give a lot more options for use in mission planing/ group cooperation and team play.Everyone ADW player knows that Ju is worst than I 153 or IL-2. Just check statistics of destroyed planes, how much planes shoot down Ju 87 pilots/gunners, how much I-153 or IL-2...and how much was destroyed Ju-87, I 153, IL-2...

I m asking admins&co to make some changes in planeset for next ADW season, especially on reserve line.
4.10.1 is different than 4.08 ( damage model, bullet power, flight model).
Plz think about it in your private group and consider my request. I m not shouting or require something. As I said before I m only a guest looking for some dialogue and asking with respect.

Plz tell me if you take it on debate/voting/chat on my pm or in this topic.

For all haters : You can laugh at my words, call me a whiner, idiot, noob and give a high five in your own red group after that, but you wont change strong arguments based on facts.

Cheers!!!

Nasty, chut killa Blacky ;*

[VPK_CARTOON]

I cannot argue with your points on ground attack thouhgts and maybe the planeset for ground attack planes can be revised but as a pilot flying for both sides i can definitelly say that we better dont touch fighter's planeset as it is now looks like fragile overall balance.

[Blakhart]

Indeed, some maps reds have advantage, some blue,for simple example 109 F-4 is a same superior vs early Yaks, Lagg, etc. like La-5 F /FN vs late Bf-109.
Good skills and cold blood can change even weak fighter in to a killer, another example: on Crimea map blue have still E-4/B but its still possible to get a kill even vs Yak, Lagg, etc. and on first maps when reds have slow, weak armed but nasty I 16 they still can get some kills by smoking 109`s and forcing them to emergency landing caus usually airfields are far away from front line.
Fighter extra lines are quite good, I m talking about reserve planes, especially battle planes. Fighters in few maps also could be discussed, but its not the main problem.

Fighters make movies, bombers win wars, especially Air Domiation War, so I think its really important to take a look at the problem.

[335th_GRTyphoon]

Fighters make movies, bombers win wars

[I./NJG6_HeTzeR]

I understand all of you.
And yes I think a change in the planeset would be nice, especially to see a real i15 early ratas or other german planes. I think you could really rework the Bonus planes. Like give us a real Me262(maybe only 5 available) and let the red use a La7Rocket or smth else. Be fair.

BUT Im sick of all this wining about planes EVERY WAR

I FLY A BF110C4! I CANT DO ANYTHING BETTER THEN ANYONE! But still I get my victorys and Im pretty good with it.
And thats what I mean, Guys it dont matter if you have a F4 and the others La5FN or lates LaGG or Stuka and Il2s
All that matters is that you have a strategy, a goal and stick to it. Think first before you fly, I just saw 2 Ju88s flying low into front depot and then, while getting 6, bombing themself away cause of emergency bomb drop...
We have a good chat on blue side, and if you all would just fly a little bit more Bomber and Cooperate a bit more, we would win easily, we have a lot of good pilots!

So its not the planeset, its only YOU!
Remember, Bf110C4

PS: I read that someone said the blue side has been cornered, thats not true. The whole day the red side has been cornered completely, you have to check the HP Map, you saw that there was blue territory around the whole damn island! That means no ships no reeinforcements!! THAT WAS OUR CHANCE, just to let you know


Best wishes


HeTzeR

[-=RedS=-Jag]

Well, when I see, blue side don't have the overall objectives!
Each squadron fly where then whant! It's big problem for blue side!
You have a lot good fighters, but they don'g cover Ju and He.

If you want win, you must fly the TEAM!
Common TS, common targets!

[wolfofwinter]

"I OPINE"

[I./NJG6_HeTzeR]

And the 1shot 1wing off shooting beginns again.......KLAUS!

[Blakhart]

Wrong "tactic", I told you! ! !

Its never your fault, its always "tactic"!!!