Reserve: return the F2 or leave the options E series?

[-=RedS=-Jag]

What you think about this question?

[335th_GRTyphoon]

My opinion allready written here:

viewtopic.php?f=147&t=196557&start=90

"...F-2 is a great plane,great performance,but....NO WEAPONS.
It is absolutely not suited for ADW,neither to cover bombers,nore to dogfight and sure not to attack Il-2..."


"...F-2 is worse than E-7 for ADW.
Yes,you are right,very high survival,but by only surviving you dont win ADW...

surviving is only good for stats/streak,for points and winning maps you need 20mm..."

[Ernst]

Last ADW i had 10 kills flying the F-2 (pilots kill, engine fire and believe, wings off in a short burst). This weanpory is not good to destroy the enemy aircraft, but to cripple hit, fire the engine and kill the pilot due to superior rate of fire.

It performs very well against soviet fighters but it performs very poorly agaings A-20 and IL-2. However as win ADW we need to deal with the Bombers E-7 is the best tactical choice. Each fighter for each tactical mission. It ll be interesting including lines with F-2 as reserve and lines with E-7 as reserve.

My only complain is about this biased mission generator.

[RedEye_Tumu]

im tyred liesent blue complains friends....

Who lisent any red complain about planetset here ????

STOP complains blues!! and lear shot whit small gunners!!!

Why no have reds I-16 Type24 on first maps??? we have to kill more fast enemys whit slow I-16 Type18 and only have 7.62 mm weapons! and any red say nothing. ¿ and why we have to fly I-153 M??? we have the power of i-153 P whit 20 mm gunner....

and talking about atack bombers.... what happens whit the lines of Mig-3 and their super gunners??? im boried to waist my ammo rear a ju-88 for see how ju-88 still flying ... and yaks??? oh! yes we have 1 20mm cannon but blues have triple of ammo...

Any blue lisent a complain for reds about this questions??

Some blues need be more respectful whit rules , admins and red players. This is not a supermarket for you buy the plane you prefer friends. This its ADW , have rules an rear planetsets are a strong work.

Stop complains please, i think all experimented pilots know the secret of combat its have more energy... all players know blues have better performance on high altitudes, have better dive speed and have enought power fire for kill a enemy in one round??? what more you want????? sidewinder guide missile??? please!!!

sry for my actitude... but i think if some pilots on adw knows what its have poor ammo and suffer vs better planes are red side, no blue side.

thx

[ghtmatrix]

all stop cry, up to TUMU!!!!

solution is easy, stop fly 7k with your fw and go deck to kill with team all il2s... then all feel happy


funny...

[RedEye_Tumu]

yes im biased GRcobra.

But now tell me the truh ... how many times u fly a P-40? mig3? i-16 type18 ? yak1? yak7b? yak1b? how many times you fly on adw la5? yak9d? lag3 s29??? . how many hours you fly red side and red planes on ADW ????

before rules be changed i fly on both sides and i fly emil, f2, iar80 , fws on adw , and im very biased but i can speak from the experience. And i know very well about im speaking, im a mediocre pilot on red side and novice on blue side... but allways have better results on blue side, easy kills and easy and fast escapes running from my security positions. fly high, atack fast, run... i think are the rules i learn fighting vs blue players and i try use beeter i can. and i can understand blue tactics , not its my intention any complain about it.

And talking about last maps... the destruction powe of blue planes can compensate worst prestations of blue planes, i reconigze its more dificul but on some time of game things have to be equilibrated ( allways keeping respect to historical dates )

i say reds have another actitude about game and no do complains about all.... for example, what you think about your reserve planes on first maps can take 4 bombs ( = 2 tanks destroyed ) and red side only can take one bomb??? what you thing about one emil whit cannons can destroy one tank T-26 ( 1 tank killed= 1 point ) , and our i-16 never can destroy whit cannons one tank ??? there are a example about problems red can find, but i never read a red doing a complain about this questions.


I consider all campaing and think all fokes are excelent weapons for destroy any bomber on 1.5 seconds, are excelents jabos for take a sc500 a do a increible diving dor destroy tanks... and i think bfs no have rival on high altitudes for dogfight and intercept red bombers.

sry if am ugly whit my words. but blues can consider all the game, need know better red planes, red problems before do a complains about your particular problems.

[-=RedS=-Jag]

Guys! No need to translate all of the plane as we're bad and you're all well! Believe me, it is already 1000 times was discussed on the Russian part of the forum.
And believe me - planetsets will not change drastically! It has evolved over the years and great experience!

[RedEye_Tumu]

ok yerpen.

ok lot of virtual competitions, but question its, fly on red side in ADW??

better die because you cant escape than escape , climb and return fight, first way you win map , second way you lost map. ok i understand.

Better dive speed its a problem for atack . ok i understand.

and 37 mm Lagg 3 it , p39 or yak 9t are the most danger and better guns for kill enemsy , especially on dogfight, ok, i understand.

One more thing, you dont have any idea about red planes. continue playing on HL mate, continue doing masacres whit super russian cannons.

of curse all advantages of blue planes are false because oleg its a cheater and all blue planes are bad modelated... green lasers, i-16 at 6k , etc, etc.... i think i know all this songs.

ok i dont waist more of my time writing to you yarpen.

bye.

[RedEye_Miji]

funny how u mention again the beginning of the campaign where an emil can kill 1 tank, completely forgetting how at the middle and end of the campaign yaks and laggs with their 37-47 mm cannons can destroy ENTIRE tank columns on their own, while we have fockes that can kill at best one tank.. Show me one pilot that would choose anything different than a 47 mm cannon for ground attacks, that can also use effectively as a good fighter plane. Just one ! And u have such planes for more than 60 % of the maps. Difference between our advantage during 1st maps of ADW, and yours at last maps of ADW, is that during 1st maps, u outmanouveur us anywhere low at ground, where most of game is played. while ofc we have huge advantage higher. During last maps u simply outmanoeveur us EVERYWHERE, so we cant even hide if we wanted to.

In first Maps, an Emil can kill 2 tanks with bombs, and some more with cannons, after few missions ( 1 or 2 days) you have enough points to choose plane line, with Polikarpov fighters , you expend 1 or 2 weeks.
When we got 47 mm. cannon, there's no more PzIV, so you can't kill any tank whit a Yak9K, Lagg IT it's the only competitive Jabo, your phrase:

at the middle and end of the campaign yaks and laggs with their 37-47 mm cannons can destroy ENTIRE tank columns on their own

it's a luftwhinner joke, writing always about the same is not fun, so plz, no more cries

[335th_GRTyphoon]

One more thing, you dont have any idea about red planes. continue playing on HL mate, continue doing masacres whit super russian cannons.

of curse all advantages of blue planes are false because oleg its a cheater and all blue planes are bad modelated... green lasers, i-16 at 6k , etc, etc.... i think i know all this songs.

1. blue planes (early war) have good advantage.
Problem is mate,we are not allowed to have their FULL advantage. (...ever heard of 109 G-2 restriction about gunpods?...or 30mm restriction?...)
2.Green lasers,I-16 at 6k.
Please dont tell me that you dont agree about green lasers and I-16 at 6-7-8k!!!
If you were flying enough for blue side in ADW as you say,you would certainly agree.!

funny how u mention again the beginning of the campaign where an emil can kill 1 tank, completely forgetting how at the middle and end of the campaign yaks and laggs with their 37-47 mm cannons can destroy ENTIRE tank columns on their own, while we have fockes that can kill at best one tank.. Show me one pilot that would choose anything different than a 47 mm cannon for ground attacks, that can also use effectively as a good fighter plane. Just one ! And u have such planes for more than 60 % of the maps. Difference between our advantage during 1st maps of ADW, and yours at last maps of ADW, is that during 1st maps, u outmanouveur us anywhere low at ground, where most of game is played. while ofc we have huge advantage higher. During last maps u simply outmanoeveur us EVERYWHERE, so we cant even hide if we wanted to.

In first Maps, an Emil can kill 2 tanks with bombs, and some more with cannons, after few missions ( 1 or 2 days) you have enough points to choose plane line, with Polikarpov fighters , you expend 1 or 2 weeks.

And what happens AFTER Emil get low and loose speed for bombing and strafing??
Right.
Its dead cause of that rata defending the tanks.
Bye Bye points...

Besides of that,yes,thank god we got Emils who can assist lousy Stuka on ground and help killing Tanks.
Would it be very convenient for you if we would fly all the war just with slow,vulnerable Stuka which only can kill 2 tanks maximum per sortie?? (remember what ILs can do later in war):wink:
BUT,on this you are right,its easier in the beginning of the war to get qualification points for blue.
...but it certainly does NOT take you 2 weeks for qualification mate,lets be honest,plenty of Emil-noobs out there for your lasers....

When we got 47 mm. cannon, there's no more PzIV, so you can't kill any tank whit a Yak9K, Lagg IT it's the only competitive Jabo

No,not ANY tank,my friend,most tanks i would say,but for the rest of heavy tanks you got......... IL-2 armored flying tank.
you need more than that?
...AND 37-47mm is also VERY good in destroying AAA,Bombers and (if you are skilled) Fighters,would you agree?
and its doesnt need the skill of a bomb-drop where you can miss sometimes,its just point-and-shoot.

it's a luftwhinner joke

What,are you another little Chimanov?
Will you start preaching about capitalism and communism and atheism now?
About faschist blue players maybe?
Or are all blue players insane?


None of that my friend,everybody has the right to say his opinion,and if we feel that we play on a server with red advantage then we have the right to say it,IF YOU LIKE IT OR NOT!
Else you guys can play against server AI if you like.


Regards,
335th_GRTyphoon.

[RedEye_Tumu]

Thypon let me return to base of my post- i try be simply.

if you read the problems of both sides you can see all have questions for complain and questions for reply complains... you kill 3,4,5 tanks whit emil... i have super green laser and red pilots have a invisible cokpits on i-16 for fly at 6k, one f2 can kill a il2 ( i recognize its very hard ) but try kill one ju88 whit mig3 ( no rokets, but can try ewhit gunpods if you want ) you fly best plane of simulator ( by year ) bf109f4, i have more late la5fn ( its good plane but sincerly i prefer a bf109 g2 on same years ) i have super cannon 37mm ( one thing about it, elephant imposible kill and tigers im not sure, personally never destroy one, but i thing can be posible ) ,we have super il2, you have super A9 ( butcherbird ), if you want can take 2x30mm bomber ( bf110 or Hs129 ) , etc, etc,

at the end pilots have the control and need enought skill for fight, kill tanks whit lag3 it or yak9k its posible , but not its easy... kill one fighter on dogfight whit 37mm its very posible, but not easy, its true foke have increible power shot, but its usually you have to shot very fast, and no good visibility... etc. etc

the question its both sides have a lot of posible things, i dont know if you never can participate on some competition and have to decide about planetset... its very, very, very, dificult. One of the good things have adw its planetset ( much better than other competitions ) and option for chose you line.

I understand complains about points of maps, or strange results whit ground moviments.. but i dont understand complains about planes, especially from blue side. At the end i think blues learn to shot whit good cannons and good power, but you cant say f2 not its good idea on planetset because no have enought fire power, f2 its a excelent plane , but you need accurate better your shoting to cokpit or motor, i have same problem whit red planes whit small caliber ( ok we have a increible tension of fire. but blues its usually have the triple of bullets of any yak )

its a interminable discusion.

im not sure if i can explain. sorry for my patetic english.

bye friends.

[335th_GRTyphoon]

Thypon let me return to base of my post- i try be simply.

if you read the problems of both sides you can see all have questions for complain and questions for reply complains... you kill 3,4,5 tanks whit emil... i have super green laser and red pilots have a invisible cokpits on i-16 for fly at 6k, one f2 can kill a il2 ( i recognize its very hard ) but try kill one ju88 whit mig3 ( no rokets, but can try ewhit gunpods if you want ) you fly best plane of simulator ( by year ) bf109f4, i have more late la5fn ( its good plane but sincerly i prefer a bf109 g2 on same years ) i have super cannon 37mm ( one thing about it, elephant imposible kill and tigers im not sure, personally never destroy one, but i thing can be posible ) ,we have super il2, you have super A9 ( butcherbird ), if you want can take 2x30mm bomber ( bf110 or Hs129 ) , etc, etc,

at the end pilots have the control and need enought skill for fight, kill tanks whit lag3 it or yak9k its posible , but not its easy... kill one fighter on dogfight whit 37mm its very posible, but not easy, its true foke have increible power shot, but its usually you have to shot very fast, and no good visibility... etc. etc

the question its both sides have a lot of posible things, i dont know if you never can participate on some competition and have to decide about planetset... its very, very, very, dificult. One of the good things have adw its planetset ( much better than other competitions ) and option for chose you line.

I understand complains about points of maps, or strange results whit ground moviments.. but i dont understand complains about planes, especially from blue side. At the end i think blues learn to shot whit good cannons and good power, but you cant say f2 not its good idea on planetset because no have enought fire power, f2 its a excelent plane , but you need accurate better your shoting to cokpit or motor, i have same problem whit red planes whit small caliber ( ok we have a increible tension of fire. but blues its usually have the triple of bullets of any yak )

its a interminable discusion.

im not sure if i can explain. sorry for my patetic english.

bye friends.

RedEye_Tumu

dont worry mate,i understand you perfectly.

Now,about facts,you are right,as is Reds Jag:inividual planes dont win ADW,Teams do.
So,complaining (or whinning as reds sometimes say ) only has the meaning that with equal terms,that means with both sides on teamplay and both sides exploiting their strenghs (i mean reds staying lower in general and blue high with BnZ),its easier in my opinion to win ADW for the team that has its strenghs low.
Yarpen allready wrote very clever to someone who told him that its safe to fly at 7k and get kills:"...Too bad reds tanks are not at 7k..."
i personally know that many experienced red pilots (early maps,late maps are a different story) do not care about blue fighters over 4-5k,and correct,they are not a threat strategically for the map (unless they escort bombers),they are only a threat to some unexperienced red fighter.
BUT,by shooting down fighters you DONT win ADW.
You win ADW either by destroying tanks low,and thats definetly reds playground cause they have better planes for low altitude cover and better attack aircraft (plus,these missions are in general quicker),or by destroying resources (very hard as it requires many many flight hours),or by closing AF's(again very hard cause they consume many many flight hours for altitude-going around defence-coming back).And for that blue simply have not that many experienced squads and not that much time.

About inividual planes now,both sides have their best planes,in different years.
Luftwaffe best planes flew 42-43 (as you said,F-4 or G-2 and of course Focke) while russian best planes flew 44-45.
My problem is,and i never ever accused a red pilot of whinning about that,that the advantage of blue planes is cut down cause every red is so afraid of F-4 or G-2.
We have to choose clean 109 lines to have "clean" 109 G-2's without gunpods.
But,if you choose "clean" 109 line you cant fly Focke's next......
You know G-6,really really sh*t plane,you only got 1 or 2 shots and then you got to dive away (if you can) cause you are going to loose a close combat fight against any late war russian plane,reserve or not.
I cant fly it with Mk-108 30mm while every big russian gun is available.Why?Thats robbing me of a first shoot-first kill capability.
Tell me,are there ANY restrictions now on russian late war planes?
On Yak-3??
On La-5FN??
On La-7??
I dont know any.
Why?

Other point:
In first stages of the war Emils dominate the skies,no doubt about it.
But rata's,chaika's and rest have the ability to at least defend themselves by using their great manouverability.
most experienced pilots in a rata can avoid an Emils attacks for a long long long time. i've seen you guys fly them.
So,at least there is hope,there is a morale cause there is a strengh..
In last stages,blue planes against La-7 and Yak-3 have no chance at all,either in high altitude speed (exept Dora),or low altitude speed or climb speed or manouverability in close combat.
only thing you can do is have great altitude advantage (NASA fighters at 9k IF some red is not that high...) and dive speed.
But at 9k you cant win ADW,nore can you by diving away.
So,no hope and no moral here.
Reds argument that "...first stage hard for red-last stage hard for blue..."is not exactlly true.
It should be:"...first stage hard for red-last stage impossible for blue..."
Thats why blue leave late war.(i never did)


About F-2 i totally disagree.
I wrote that F-2 is a great plane,but not suited for ADW.
i explain.
In ADW you got in most cases 1min of 1vs1 dogfight before one or more bandits see your tracers and jump in the fight.
So the advantage is definetly in the heavier gun which can stop the fight quicker,and thats the 20mm.
Yes,give me a F-2 and 3min against ANY russian plane (same year),i will shoot it down most of the times on equal terms,but i will need time,and you dont have much time in ADW.
So in most cases,what happens in a F-2 is that you BnZ for 5 mins without result,or you stay behind that bandit for a long period and risk your 6.
Of course some quick PK allways happen,but one of my instructors (one of the best and most respected pilots in Il-2 game i should say,and he also never liked F-2), GR_Ikarus,allways told me that PK (pilot kill) is allways a matter of little bit luck also...
And dont even let me start about shooting down Pe or IL ( ) with F-2 or covering stuka from above.


Rules about points only now seem to change,and thats cause.....some blue pilots "whinned" here.
But you said it yourself,it was not fair!!

Again,thats only my point of view,i hope you understand.

Sry for the long post.

[Pragr]

...
On Yak-3??
On La-5FN??
On La-7??
I dont know any...

Hi. I won't complain about anything, just informative notice.

I have no data for Yak-3, but all Klimov's engines in Yak-1/7/9 series were designed for optional use of either 20mm ShVAK or 23mm VYa canons. But the VYa option is restricted by the Il-2 game itself

[RedEye_Tumu]

This its the restrictions for ADW ( wrote on rules )

FIGHTERS


I-16type28 - I-16type24 without RS
LaGG-3series29st - LaGG-3series29 without VYA and RS
Yak-1A - Yak-1 without RS
Yak-7 - Yak-7A without RS
Yak-7Bst - Yak-7B without RS
Yak-7DI - Yak-7BPF without RS


Bf-109G-2R6 - Bf-109G-2 5-points variant
Bf-109G-6 - Bf-109G-6 without MK108 and bombs 250
Bf-109G-6_Late/R - Bf-109G-6_Late without MK108 and bombs 250
Bf-109G-6_Late_st - Bf-109G-6_Late without MK108
Bf-109G-6AS_st - Bf-109G-6AS without MK108
Bf-110C - Bf-110G-2 without MK108 and Bk37

Are restrictions for boths sides in adw, no only blue.


And Thx Pragr , are very interesting date. You can write something to Team Deadelos... this people thinks only blue planes need better weapons, guied rokets and super bombs... but simply things like gunner of il2 field mod or use of 23mm cannon are not necesary.


"¿¿¿¿cuanto tenemos que llorar los rojos para que nos den el I16 Type24 de reserva en ADW???? "

[wolfofwinter]

Claro hay cosas que no tienen nada que ve con la ADW ni los chicos que hacen la campaña son responsables de ello, etc etc etc.., y muchos escriben dando esa impresión, porq que culpa tiene la ADW que en un bando X, los soportes de bombas pesen 150Kg y en otro bando X pesen 0 kg ? Que hayan aviones que trepen 15% o más de lo indicado en los manuales historicos de sus propias fuerzas, esta mal pero no es culpa de la ADW. Que algunos aviones pesen <200 kg de lo que realmente pesaban, no es culpa de la ADW.
Bueno no es culpa de la ADW ni de los del Team Deadelos....

Y a la final quedariamos en el mismo lugar del principio, algunos llamndo a otros luftwhinners y los otros llamando a los unos pilotos sobremodelados. ... y como diria el arbitro de futbol de mi pueblo: "Aqui venimos a divertirnos, asi que las patadas, insultos y golpes lo dejan para cuando esten fuera de la cancha" y la otra frase, que es la que me gusta mas: "La mia que este bien friaaa"

Sure there are things that have nothing to do with the ADW and the guys who make the campaign are responsible for it, etc etc etc. .., and many write to give that impression, for ADW is blaming one side in X, media weighing 150kg bombs and other X weighing 0 kg? Aircraft having to climb 15% or more as indicated in the historical manuals of their own strength, but it is wrong because of the ADW. Some aircraft weighing less than 200 kg of what actually weighed, not the fault of the ADW. Well, not the fault of the ADW Team or the Deadelos .... sorry for my terrible english